Many people get confused about the traffic priorities at mini roundabouts

22/1/2019

I'm hoping this is a correct route to suggest a change to clarify the HWC.

It seems to me that many people get confused about the traffic priorities at mini roundabouts. Whilst Rule 185 is fine for larger roundabouts (which is what I think it originally and solely applied to) the Rule states that a driver should " give priority to traffic approaching from your right,......" I believe this statement to be too simplistic for mini roundabouts as drivers are interpreting that traffic joining from the left must give way to traffic that has yet to reach the roundabout.

Dangerously, drivers approaching a mini roundabout and intending to drive straight across, seem to think that, even before they have got to the roundabout, they have some sort of standing priority over vehicles joining from the left, who's wheels have already crossed the give way lines. Also, interpreting the rule literally, two cars approaching a mini roundabout head to head and one car needs to turn right, the rule can (and has been) interpreted that it must give way to the other approaching car, which is also on the right; collisions a commonplace because of this misconception.

My understanding is that once a vehicle's front wheels have crossed the give way lines, that vehicle is technically on the roundabout and has established its priority; others vehicles yet to reach the roundabout must then give way. For example, a mini roundabout that was once a T junction: a vehicle enters the roundabout from the side road but there is another vehicle bearing down from the right but, at this moment in time, has not yet reached the roundabout. Rule 185 can be interpreted that the car bearing down and on the right, that has yet to reach the roundabout, has the right of way, even though it hasn't crossed the give way lines. This would make a nonsense of the concept of the mini roundabout which is to slow down traffic and enable priorities to change according to the position of the vehicles.

I believe that Rule 185 should be amended to clarify that the priorities shall only apply to vehicles that have crossed the give way lines and are now, technically, on the roundabout; if you have not yet reached the roundabout you have not yet established your priority.

Robin

18 Comments

Anne Haymes

14/3/2020 15:04:07

I had an altercation with a bus driver on exactly this issue only yesterday. I was turning left and then right (effectively going straight on) at a junction with 2 mini roundabouts. I had entered the first roundabout but was then caught in a queue to turn right at the second. While I was stationary on the roundabout, a bus entered the roundabout from my right. When the traffic moved forward ahead of me, I followed, but at the same time, the bus attempted to push through in front of me from my right. Given the heated exchange that followed, it was quite clear that we both believed we had right of way: he because he was on my right, and I because I was on the roundabout before him. Who is correct?

Phil Hynes

11/8/2020 11:45:16

I believe Anne is correct and agree that an amendment to clarify the rules would be helpful, together with more publicity.

Adrian Chapmanlaw

8/9/2020 08:19:30

if you treat roundabouts like this then its dangerous.

its safer (no matter the letter of the law) that if you have a car approaching from the right to give way to it.

having one rule for one type of roundabout and another for another type of roundabout is insane.

always give way to the right

1/12/2020 17:20:04

Sorry Adrian, are you suggesting that traffic stationary on a roundabout should give way to any incoming traffic that can see a way through? I would have thought that was considerably more dangerous. I believe that once you are on the roundabout, as I said I was, then traffic from the right should give way to you, not vice versa.

Tom Weston

27/9/2020 10:21:03

I came across this discussion with great interest because (a) it is a situation that I feel is really quite dangeruos and (b) the argument to always give priorty to the right is not logically coherent.

For example what happens at a mini roundabout with 4 roads joining arranged as the points of compass (N, S, E, W).
Suppose there is a stationary car at each road.
Who has priority? By symmetry each car is in the same position - its view of the roundabout is the same, with a car to the right.

I find, behaviourally, there is often a conflict between new mini roundabout layouts and the former, road junction layouts with well established priorities.

Thanks for any feedback.I find this genuinely perplexing.

Terry Steel

18/12/2020 11:01:45

If two cars arrive head on at a four road mini roundabout at the same time and both want to turn right it seem like whoever is going fastest gets priority as he will be approaching the other cars right hand side first. This puts the slower safer driver in a dangerous position he has to brake and stop quickly or hope the faster driver does the same. Who's to blame?

18/12/2020 11:13:20

It seems entirely ambiguous as to who is at fault. This is exacerbated by the fact some of the mini-roundabouts are so small (barely a few metres) that for two cars even going from a standstill, the timing gets close to a typical driver's reaction time.

Mike

18/12/2020 11:57:22

"This puts the slower safer driver in a dangerous position he has to brake and stop quickly"

Utter nonsense as he was braking to stop at the give way line in any case as all drivers - even the faster ones should be doing.

13/10/2020 21:02:26

The give way lines are for the roundabout & no other (approach) road.
The Mexican standoff occurs because drivers fail to understand this.
There is not one rule for big roundabouts and another for mini roundabout.

Sue

2/11/2020 16:42:26

There is a mini roundabout near me which sometimes has a seemingly constant supply of vehicles approaching it from one particular road. If I am waiting at the next turning, I can end up waiting for 5, 6, 7 or even more cars to speed onto the roundabout and off again in front of me (no bothersome stoppage to Their traffic flow doncha know) and only be able to proceed myself if and when there is a gap, I got hooted and gestured at tonight. I only wish I could send the vickers gesture from my back window. The roundabout is tiny and my front wheels were definitely on the roundabout - beyond the give way lines - before theirs. I moved off at a snail's pace but was still in front of them when they made it past 'the dot' (family pet name for mini roundabouts.) I agree with the post earlier that for safety it is best to let them go but the lack of clarity (the rules essentially say give way to the the right the same way for normal and mini roundabouts) is obviously leading to some problems and sometimes trouble which I think is unfair to those who have got the rules right but also really to those who have got the rules wrong but don't know it. We all deserve clarity.

2/11/2020 17:40:30

Sue,

If those 7 vehicles form one stream, it is better to let them all through. However, if there's a gap, feel free to use it.

Many bad drivers resort to using the horn. It is one part of a car they seem to have mastered and therefore make too frequent use.

Last time I tried using the horn to attract the attention of a ped I know, I failed. I was just not prepared for the amount of 'shove' necessary to get the horn to sound. I was used to a push on the end of the indicator stalk which only needed a light tap.

BikerOnAMission

16/1/2021 19:12:18

Driver courtesy is the missing essential ingredient to the Mexican Stand-off. With that, there would be no significant accidents, since all would approach said mini-roundabouts with intentional kindness to give the other punter a chance of living. Instead, it's more like "Shoot out at the OK Corral". Sadly, they don't (but should) teach sufficient courtesy during driving courses, and it is probably not fashionable to say it. -Hence we all pay more insurance.
Progress.

Ricky

4/11/2020 17:50:55

On the mini roundabout near me one junction at the roundabout has a double dashed line whereas the others have a single dashed line. I can only guess what that really signifies. A pity though that one approach doesn't have a continuous (uncashed) line signifying a 'stop' or 'yield' which would be sensible as the whole approach to the roundabout is blind and nobody can see vehicles approaching and not stopping.

Steve

1/12/2020 14:32:20

What the different dashed lines signify is that the council have not adhered to the legislation regarding road markings!

Therefore, the roundabout is incorrectly marked and if a collision were to occur there, then apportioning blame would be difficult.

18/12/2020 11:23:33

Really to answer my own point I found some diagrams on the government's highway code website dealing with roundabout give way signs. There are 3 - all dashed variety - (a) single dashed line, (b) double dashed line and (c) very large double dashed line (like slabs). Of course they all signify give way to vehicles approaching from the right but the large slab like double dashed lines signify give way to traffic on the 'major' road. All well and good but the nutters where I live have seemingly changed the priorities by placing option (c) on the 'major' road and giving the minor one priority. So everybody ignores them, drivers pull out into oncoming traffic and there is lots of honking. A simple solid line on one of the approaches would do the job.

18/12/2020 12:03:53

The 'major road' is the circular one on the roundabout - all approaches are minor roads to that one. The 'give way' markings mean give way to traffic on the major road (which approaches from the right - hence that statement in The Highway Code).

This is what roundabouts are all about and if people understood this, (not even some driving instructors do!) everything would work fine. It's not helped by poor wording in The Highway Code.

Matt

12/11/2020 10:08:26

I am at a mini roundabout and about to turn right , but as i notice there is a further 2 cars (1 car on my right signaling right )& other car in front of me also signaling Right !! We all are BEHIND THE GIVE WAY LINES & Approched at the same time ,so nobody is committed yet . Who gives way to who ? As we all know we have to ALL give way to eachother if signaling right !? Not only that but we cant “Flash them “ ! So what ?!

Mike Paley

13/11/2020 01:33:56

You only give way to vehicles on the roundabout. It seems none of the drivers present understand this - hence the Mexican standoff.

It never happens with me as I just carry on !

Many people get confused about the traffic priorities at mini roundabouts

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